Lotus Sutra, Lecture No. II-14

Shunryu Suzuki Transcript

Fall 1968
Zen Mountain Center

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We have here—we had here various name of bodhisattvas, and next—next ones were the devas—devas, or gods, or supernatural beings.1

The “further Sakra, the ruler of the celestials, with twenty thousand—thousand god, his followers, such as god Kindra—Kandra (the Moon), the god Surya (the Sun), the god Samantagandha—Samantagandha, the god Ratnaprabha—Ratnaprabha, the god—the Avabhasaprabha, the others—and others…”

Sakra, the ruler of the celestials. Sakra—Sakra is—is not—was not—Rig Veda's time, he was not—this is not the name of the god. Sakra—Sakra is the adjective, no, as—as you say: the strong—the strong. The—if—if you say “the strong” sometime you mean strong one is just strong. Same thing with this god. The Indra—Sakra—Indra was the name of god. The Sakra, the strong one, means Sakra the Indra. When we—when they say so, he was the strong Indra, it means strong Indra. But at Buddha's time Sakra became the name of the Indra’s, and here this is the name of the god. Sakra the ruler of the celestials.

Sakra the—Sakra devanam Indra. Sakra the ruler, deva—devanam Indra, the strong one, the ruler of celestials. But here, Sakra is name. The celestials means Indra—Indras, many gods.

“…with twenty thousand gods, his followers, such as god Kandra (the Moon)…” God of the moon—deva—deva of the moon, the deva of Surya (the Sun), “…the god of Samantagandha (the Wind), the god of ratnaprabha…” Ratnaprabha, I could not figure out who he was. “…the god Avabnasaprabha—Avabnasaprabha…”

And “…further, the four great rulers of the cardinals points with thirty thousand gods in their train namely the great ruler Virudhaka, the great—the great ruler Virupaksha—Virupaksha, the great ruler Dhritarashtra—Dhritarashtra, the great ruler Vaisravana—Vaisravana…”

Those are the rulers or gods protects Buddhist in four directions. Great ruler Virupaksha—in Japanese, Komoku-ten. Komoku-ten is a ruler of—ruler who lives—protector who live in West. The great ruler Dhritarashtra—Dhritarashtra lives—Dhritarashtra—excuse me— namely, the great ruler Virudhaka—the first one lives in South. The next one, Virupaksha, lives in West, the protector of the West. And the great ruler Dhritarashtra, the protector who is in North. And greater ruler Vaishravana, who live in East. This is—sometime the order is not the same, but here, in this book, the order is South, East and North, East. Sometime East, South, West, North. This is more usual.

“…the god Ishvara and the god Maheshvara…” God Ishvara—Maheshvara, this is—in Japanese, they are Jizaiten or Daijizai-ten. Those are the god who protects also Buddhist.

“…each followers—each followed by thirty thousand gods; further, Brahma Sahdmpati…” Brahma Sahdmpati. Saha means Shaba. Shaba means, in Japanese or Chinese, Shaba. Sahampati is the Lord of or Ruler of This World is Sahdmpati. Brahma is god—god of god. Brahma Sahampati means Brahma, the Lord of This World.

“… and his twenty thousand followers, and Brahmakayika—the Brahmakayika gods, amongst whom Brahma Sikhin and Brahma Gyotishprabha— Gyotishprabha, with the other twelve thousand Brahmakdyika gods…”

Brahmakayika—kakyika means a world. Brahmakayika—the gods which belongs to Brahma worlds—Brahma’s worlds, Kayika.
“…Brahmakayika gods, amongst whom Brahma Sikhin…”
Sikhin is name of the Brahma.

“…and Brahma Gyotishprabha, with the other twelve thousand Brahmakayika…” Kayika, gods. Brahmakayika—Brahma—gods with—those are the gods who belongs to Brahma—Brahma's world. “…together with eighty—eight Naga Kings…” Naga Kings—eight Naga Kings is pretty famous gods.

“…and many hundred thousand myriads of Kotis of Nagas in their train…” Naga is dragon. Namely, “…the Naga King Nanda, the Naga king Upananda, Sagara, Vasuki, Takshaka, Manasvin, Anavatapta, and Utpakala…” Those are the eight Nagas, Naga dragons. “…further, the four Kinnara Kings with many hundred thousand myriad of kotis of followers…” Kinnara is—kinnara, kin is what, nara is a man. Man or what? [Laughs, laughter] kinnara, man or what? He—he—his—he has, you know, his legs is animal, and his body is—his head is man, with horn, here. So, [laughs] man or what? That is, you know, his name, Kinnara. And he is—he is—he is good. He is a kind of musician, you know, and people like him very much, because of his music. Man or what? is his name, Kinnara.

And “…many hundred thousand myriads of kotis of followers, namely Kinnara King Druma, the Kinnara king Mahadharma, the king—the Kinnara king Sudharma, the Kinnara king of Dharmadhara...” The—the first one, King Druma, the—his name is—means King who respect Dharma. Kinnara King Druma. The Kinnara King Mahadharma, the King—King of Great Dharma, Mahadhrama. The King Saddharma— Saddharma Pundarika, you know, Highest, Greatest Dharma. And the Kinnara King Dharmadhara. Dharmadara means to hold, or to protect, or to obtain. The Kinnara who obtain or who protect Dharma.

“…beside, the four divine being called Gandharvakayikas…” Gandharvakayikas is in Chinese or Japanese Kendatsuba. God Kendatsuba— divine being, god Kendatsuba. “…hundred thousand—with many hundred thousand Gandharvas in their suite, namely the Gandharva Manogna, the Gandharva Manognasvara, the Gandharva Madhura, the Gandharva Madhurasvara;...” Those are the gods who has—who—who is charming, and who likes girls, you know. Who loves girls, and who gave people joy. The first one is—Manogna is the joy or tenderness, god of Tenderness. And the Gandharva Manognasvara—the god of the Sun. Gandharva Madhura is god of Sweetness. And the god of—god of Madhurasvara, he is also the god of Sound[?].

“…further, the four chiefs of demons followed by many hundred thousand myriads of kotis of demons, namely the chief of the demons Bali, Kharaskandha—Bali, Kharaskandha, Vemakitri, and Rahu; along with the four Garuda chief followed by many hundred thousand myriads of kotis of Garuda...”

Yasha, Asura—Asura is—he is the—one of the—he is—he belongs to one of the six reincarnations, reincarnated world. You know, we—celestial worlds and human world and—and hell and hungry ghost world and animal world and Asura world. This is a kind of world where a human being incarnated. A human being actually—we have actually some—we are actually sometimes celestial, like celestial beings, like human being, like animal, like Asura. Asura is the—may be state of our mind where—because we have two natures: one is animal nature or good nature, the other is bad nature. And within ourselves always fighting the god—good nature always fighting the bad nature. That is our problem. So, before Buddhists, before Buddhism, there were evil natured kings, and gods, who were fighting always with the gods—gods who has good nature.

[End of Side A. Some text lost.]

… god who was fighting. Buddhist understand this god as a reincarnation— reincarnated world for human being. So, it means that the state of mind we will actually, even in this life. So those gods is rather more subjective gods than objective being, which is always fighting with good nature gods.

And four garuda gods follows.

“…Garuda chief followed by many hundred thousand myriads of kotis of Garudas, namely the Garuda chief—chiefs Mahategas, and Mahapurna, and Maharddhiprapta, and with—and with Agatasatru,2 the king of Magadha, the son of Vaidehi.”

The King of Ajatashatru, this is a historical person, not god. All those were—this is—here we have Bodhisattvas and sixteen laymen Bodhisattvas and celestial beings like deva; and many spirit, good and bad. And the last one, as a human being, is Bimbisara's son, or princes. Ajatashatru—Ajatashatru—Ajatashatru, King of the Magadha, the son of Vaidehi. I think I told you about him already. Bimbisara—he—Bimbisara who is—who had—who did not have his successor, but he didn't have for a long time his princes or successor, so he asked some fortune teller, you know, about his princes—prince; and fortune teller said, “He is in the— still—you will have your successor, but he is now in—he is now still a hermit in the mountain. And he will be, after his [Bimbisara’s] death, he will—his future life will be your successor.”

So he kills him, so that he can have his next life earlier, he kills him [laughs]. Do you remember him? And—but—so, at the same time he reincarnated as his princes. And he asked again the fortune—fortune teller about him. And he said, “You killed him, so I am afraid he—he will kill you” [laughs]. So, he was very much afraid of his boy, and he tried to kill him before he—the boy kill the king. And the king—but the—the king throw him or tossed him from the high pagoda, but he couldn't kill him. But he was injured. His—just his toe was injured. And so, he now—the king now, treated him very well so that he will not have any bad feeling with the king. But when he became—before the princes become king, he try to killed—he tried to kill the king. He put the king in prison, and his wife protected him in various way. Sometime he—she went—she saw the king with honey, with honey painted on his—on her body—whole body [laughs]. And he licked it. King to lick the honey from—from her body [laughs]. But at last his King passed away in the prison. And Ajatashatru became the king of the country, Magadha. And ??? or Vaidehi—Vaidehi is the mother of Ajatasattu. And Ajatasattu is—became Buddha's follower. Later he was very—he became very resentful what he did, and he became Buddha's follower. This is Ajatasattu—Ajatasattu— Ajatasattu, the king of Magadha, the son of Vaidehi.

“Now at that time it was that the Lord surrounded, attended, honored, venerated—revered, venerated, worshipped by the four class of hearers, after expounding the Dharmaparyaya—Dharmaparyaya called 'the Great Exposition,’ a text of great development, serving to instruct Bodhisattva and proper to all Buddha, sat—sat cross-legged on the seat of the law and entered upon meditation termed 'the station of exposition of Infinity;'…”

And so many human beings and various spirit and gods attended—came to the castle—not castle, Ragagriha, city of Ragagriha—where Buddha was, and he was surrounded by those people. Four people—four people means lay Buddhist—man and woman, and nuns and monks. Those are the four hearers.

“…honored, revered—revered, venerated, worshipped by the four class of hearers.” Worshipped it says, but means that—served is more appropriate. Venerated and served, kuyo—kuyo, it has—this word is very big word. Worship. In Shobogenzo—this—only—this term is explained—what is kuyo. It has very deep and wide meaning.

“…venerated, worshiped by the four classes of hearers, after expounding the Dharmaparyaya…” the Supreme teaching— means Dharmaparyaya— “…called ‘the Great Exposition’…” This is Dharmaparyaya and great exposition—is in Chinese rendering, it is in apposition: Dharmaparyaya comma the great exposition. But here it says: “Dharmaparyaya called ‘the Great Exposition’…” I—I don't know which it is correct. The text of great—this is, you know, adjective for the Supreme Teaching. Or—Great Exposition means Great Vehicle. The Supreme Teaching—called the Great Vehicle or Great Teaching, Great Exposition.

“…a text of Great Development…” this is a adjective for the Dharmaparyaya or Supreme Teaching. The “great development, serving to instruct Bodhisattva —serving to instruct Bodhisattva and proper to all Buddhas…” Proper to—obtained by Bodhisattvas—the teaching—Bodhisattva obtain—means: teaching which Bodhisattva always in their mind—the proper to all Buddhas.

“…sat across—sat cross-legged on the seat of the law and entered upon meditation termed 'the station of the exposition of Infinity'…” The dhyana of—dhyana—and dhyana of Infinity, Infinite meaning.

And “his body was motionless and his mind had reached the perfect tranquility. And as soon as the Lord had entered upon his meditation, there fell a great rain of divine flowers, Mandaravasa and great Mandaravas, Mangushakas and great Mangushakas, covering the Lord and the four classes of hearers, while the whole Buddha field shook in the six ways: it moved, removed, trembled, trembled from—trembled from one end to the other, tossed, tossed along.” This is how it was moved.

“…as soon as Lord had entered upon the meditation; there fell a great rain of divine flowers.” This is—some, you know, important event happened, when he—before he started to give this sutra. “…as soon as Lord had entered upon his meditation; there fell a great rain of divine flowers, Mandaravasas and the great Mandaravas, Mangushakas and great Mangushakas…” I don't know what flower actually they are. But in Japan, Mangushaka—Mangushaka means, you know, a kind—a kind of flower which comes out in spring and autumn. It is, you know, you don't have that flower in — I haven't seen Mangushaka in America. It is something like daffodils, but it is red. It is a kind of bulbs, which comes out spring and it comes out twice, spring and autumn.

Those flower fell and covered the Lord and four classes of hearers or various hearers who were at the— who were there. And “…whole Buddha field shook in six ways...” In six ways, there are many, you know, interpretation for what was the six ways of shaking. This is one of the—one of the interpretation: “…it moved, trembled—it moved, trembled—it moved, removed, trembled—trembled from one end to the other tossed, tossed along.” And this is a mixture of [laughs] many kinds of interpretation of how it trembles. But, it means, anyway, how it, you know, shook. Some explanation is to shook, you know, if this is world [probably gesturing] — middle part come up [laughs] and four corners comes out, later, this way [gesturing] and some explanation — and this is one — and four corner of it here, you know, move. But this is four — four ways. And some explained—Here—I don’t know what that’s—removed — trembled — removed and—removed—moved—moved strongly and moved—and moved strongly—and removed—and removed strongly—strongly—trembled—trembled strongly. In this way, it will make six. “…from one end to the other, tossed—tossed along.”

And there is many interpretations, anyway, page after page [laughs]. But it means to—something extraordinary. The people who attended there who had some extraordinary feeling when he [they] expected Buddha to tell some important teaching.

Student: Do you want ???

SR: Hai.

Student A: Roshi, I don't understand reincarnation at all. Are people really reborn? And if they are, who or what is reborn? And how does that happen?

SR: Reincarnation? Actually, Buddhist—most Buddhist believe in reincarnation. Actually, you know, it means—reincarnated means next life will be some other being, like animal, if you do not behave [laughs].

Student A: If what?

Student B [DC]: If you don't “behave.”

Student A: Yeah, okay, what if you do behave?

SR: Hmm?

Student A: What if you do behave?

SR: [Laughs] according, you know, what—if you—if you behave like animal, next life will be animal [laughs].

Student A: Well how?

SR: How?

Student A: Yeah, I mean — what is it that’s reborn?

SR: I don't know. [Laughter.]

Student A: Is there some thing, you know, something about you that continues?

SR: Hmm?

Student A: Is there some thing, you know, something inside of me, say, that continues and it—it gets reborn somehow? I read a book — a thing Yasutani Roshi wrote. It’s about this little thing that kind of floats around, you know, it’s yeast perfume and — and it finds appropriate parents for it — and then it’s reborn. But it — it’s too ??? like a thing. Something. I don't know what to call it. Is that what it is like? [Laughter throughout much of this.]

SR: I don't know [laughter]. I am not so sure [laughs, laughter].

Student B [DC]: Roshi, I—I don't know about reincarnation, but I have read Buddhist things on reincarnation that say there is no—no person reborn, but there are—no actor reborn, but the acts continue — and it seems to me that you could just as easily say as “Who is being reborn now?” As you can say, “Who will be reborn later?” We don't understand. What is happening now is no more miraculous, I think, than some continuation of whatever is happening. But—but do you see what I mean?

SR: No[?]

Student B [DC]: I’m not [laughter].

SR: I am not — I cannot explain it, you know, satisfactorily, what it—I—I studied from many teachers, but it was pretty difficult to, you know, understand.

Student B [DC]: You have no opinion?

SR: No. I have many opinions. [Laughter.]

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1 reading from Lotus Sutra, Kern translation

2 In the Kern translation the spelling is Agâtasatru. In Wikipedia: Ajatasattu (Pāli: Ajātasattu) or Ajatashatru (Sanskrit: Ajātaśatru).

This transcript is a retyping of the existing City Center transcript. It was not verbatim. The City Center transcript was entered onto disk by Jose Escobar, 1997. It was reformatted by Bill Redican (7/17/01). Verbatim version based on Engage Wisdom audio by Peter Ford 4/2025.

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File name: 68-10-00-M: Lotus Sutra, Lecture No. II-14 (Verbatim) sped up at end. Q & A after lecture. Changed "Student B:" to "Student B [DC]:" 3-5-2015 by DC. Changed "king of" to "kind of" 1-3-2022, pf.

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